I received an email from a man who remarked on my earlier Coffee Talk 122: Is Hinduism Monotheistic?
This Coffee Talk consists of his email, and my response.
To better understand the issues in this Coffee Talk,
I would advise the reader to first read Is Hinduism Monotheistic?
~ ~ ~
Dear Prof. Walston....
As a Hindu, I thank you for doing so much thinking on what Hinduism is...You have really sifted out the truth...
....But ultimately it is only in experiencing things that one really lives...isn't it sir.
...The mystics did that...and if you look at the outpourings of many of them...you will find the experience of one supreme being....
...I call your attention to the Tamil Saint Tirumular..who celebrated a godhead called Nandhi...Sivan...as the Supreme reality...
...Nammalwar, the vaishnavite mystic experience Vishnu in this way....
....The Gita says that the devotee experiences the godhead in the way he or she worships it...If there is no particular word to describe such a belief or philosophy, one would have to be coined...
...As a Hindu...and a humble man, because all I know is only my ignorance and the impossibility to achieving any worthwhile spiritual knowledge through the application of thought...I believe that there is a reality...when you go past the mind some way...there is no one to worship and nothing to be worshipped...
Of course, some name can be given to such a philosophy too...but ultimately desisting from all categories is the pathless path...
When I go to the temple in my area, Mylapore in Chennai,,,, I stand before Vinayaka, the elephant headed god, Muruga, the six-faced god, Shiva, of multitudinous description but present as a linga in the temple, and Karpagambal, Shiva's consort...I experience different emotions at each sanctum, but I don't have the impression of worshipping different gods...It is a certain light in my own heart,,..my truth...that I am trying to invoke...
....Sorry for encumbering you with my thoughts sir...you people have the capacity to work hard in theorising..which I appreciate greatly...I am a great zero in that area...that's y I thank you...Regards sir...—Vamanan
As I read through your email a couple of things are particularly interesting: you state (1) “there is no one to worship and nothing to be worshipped,” and (2) “. . . but ultimately desisting from all categories is the pathless path.”
Yet, it appears obvious to me as I read your whole email that you are in fact a worshipper who worships what he perceives to be God. So, your actions as a worshipper and you're your statement that “there is no one to worship and nothing to be worshipped” are self-contradictory.
Next, to ultimately desist from all categories is not a pathless path. It is no path at all. A “pathless path” is a contradiction. It is as contradictory as a “married bachelor.”
We do agree on this, when you say: “....But ultimately it is only in experiencing things that one really lives...isn't it sir.” But, what you seem to imply is that only you experience God . . . (which is odd based on your statement that there is nothing to be worshipped), and others, perhaps me, do not. However, the Bible says, “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24, NIV). So, while the “spirit” is our experience, we can only rightly worship Him as we do so in truth. Therefore, it is my position that we are not to have one without the other. All experience and no outward guiding truth, like the Bible, leads us into a false perception of God. All truth and no experience leads us into an empty theory of God.
Next, you state: “...As a Hindu...and a humble man, because all I know is only my ignorance and the impossibility to achieving any worthwhile spiritual knowledge through the application of thought...I believe that there is a reality...when you go past the mind some way...there is no one to worship and nothing to be worshipped...”
However, if, as you say, “all I know is only my ignorance and the impossibility to achieving any worthwhile spiritual knowledge through the application of thought,” then how did you come to think that “there is a reality...when you go past the mind some way”? You had to use your mind and thought to arrive at this conclusion; yet, you said that “achieving any worthwhile spiritual knowledge through the application of thought” is impossible.
So, if it is impossible, then why should you even accept your own theory of a reality that goes past the mind some way since that contradicts what you just said?
And, if you cannot accept your own theory because it contradicts your fuller theory, then why should I accept your self-contradictory theories?
I'm not trying to be obstinate; I just cannot accept a contradictory theory that says, in essence, “Through my process of thinking, I believe that it is impossible to achieve any worthwhile spiritual knowledge through the application of thought.” This is a self-defeating argument.
Also, the mere fact that you are disagreeing with my assessment of the God of Hinduism says that you are “thinking” through these things and (at least for you) “achieving [some] worthwhile spiritual knowledge through the application of thought.”
And, last, my use of the word monotheism is from a theological perspective meaning, as the Coffee Talk said, “belief in the existence of one God . . . who created all else (all other than himself; he is the uncaused cause) and that he is distinct from and transcendent over (beyond) the universe. True monotheism has no elements of pantheism or monism in it.”
Whereas, your idea of monotheism is that all is one, i.e., monism. For Hinduism, God is not distinct from and transcendent over (beyond) the universe . . . he is one with the universe. This “oneness” is not what monotheism means.
I'll close with the final words from my original Coffee Talk:
While Hinduism has an approximation to monotheism, i.e., a single ultimate reality of Atman/Brahman, this can at best be described as a pantheistic-monistic monotheism.
However, a pantheistic-monotheism or monistic-monotheism - while perhaps an approximation to monotheism - is not monotheism.
~ ~ ~
Vamanan Responds:
Dear Prof Walston...
The basis of my worship or lack of it is not reason....it is a hunch..an intuition at the bottom of my heart...
I don't need revelations from any book be it in hebrew on ancient Sanskrit.....
...My parents loved me (as much as they loved my brother and sister) and gave off themselves without any selfishness...
I sometimes feel that those who have experienced unselfish love from their parents come to believe in a father or mother of the world who is full of love...
....While being in the maze that is this world..full of conflicting doctrines and experieces....it is only an unexplicable light that guides those who dont want to use others.....
....Like your own Abhishiktananda...the french father who became a monk of advaitic truth in India..I have experienced the love of a few men who (despite the contradiction you note) have walked the pathless path....(God is contradictory...He is the greatest contradiction because he shrinks from every word you use to describe him)....I wont subscribe to any religion in the world but the one that allows every person his ladder to perfection...
While logic does help in clearing verbal misunderstandings, you will accept that most of life is perfecftly illogical...and illogically perfect...
You can find contradictions in tonnes in what I write....but life will die out when contradictions cease...
So kindly do not attempt to define HInduism -- there are some Indians who assert that such a thing does not exist..
One happy definition of HInduism could be...the religion.....or a bundle of religions..that you can attack and always get away with...
Or the religion that non-Hindus define beautifully but cannot understand one bit....
The pathless path... ultimately means just living fully....rather than verbalising...
One of the most irrational things to do would be to love the man who hates us..but that is what Jesus asked us to do...
That is the contradiction at the heart of religion....
.....I worship the deity only to remove the veils that separate me from it...finally I become one with it...whether I continue to exist as a subject ( dualism) or satelitte ( called qualified non-dualism in Inda)....or whether I commingle with it..is to be experienced from reaching the altar of God..any argumentation before that happens will only mean I am wandering the path...
I present these words only as a reflection of my state of mind....all I seek is the wordless state....beyond the pale of books and theories....As I said I have the hunch that some day the oceanic experience will be there......all the cobwebs of thought will be pushed aside and the sunlight of sheer joy will flood the consciousness...
I invite you also to that world of sunshine...when men will not be divided by their affiliations to any religion or nation....
Warm Regards....Vamanan
~ ~ ~
Ric Responds:
Dear Vamanan,
I have enjoyed our communications herein. I have particularly enjoyed the pleasant tone that we have been able to have. While we disagree on so much with regard to God and logic, I do appreciate your gentle spirit.—Ric
